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	<title>Comments on: The numbers:  Private Health Care VS Single-Payer</title>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Riskable</title>
		<link>http://riskable.com/2007/07/09/the-numbers-private-health-care-vs-single-payer#comment-1335</link>
		<dc:creator>Riskable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riskable.com/2007/07/09/the-numbers-private-health-care-vs-single-payer/#comment-1335</guid>
		<description>Horatio, there's several fatal flaws with your arguments...

Firstly:  Steve Jobs makes a hell of a lot more than $1.00 a year.  You're confusing his salary at Apple with his actual income.  Apple pays him in stock which he then cashes out whenever he needs money (that, plus his salary/stock from Pixar and the millions he makes in interest from his savings accounts).  If you want to complain about the rich not paying enough in taxes that is an entirely different matter...

Every time Steve Jobs sells stock he pays the 18% capital gains tax on it.  If he were paid an equivalent amount of money in salary he'd be paying 35% income tax (the highest income tax bracket).  So next time you want to complain about the rich having unfair advantages pick a better battle.

Second, the VA's heath care program consistently ranks higher than the best private health insurance in the U.S.--in every category!  You need to get the facts before you start making such arguments.  Read more &lt;a href="http://healthypolicy.typepad.com/blog/2006/01/the_va_reprise.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href="http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=01&#038;year=2006&#038;base_name=socialized_medicine_rocks" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/eveningnews/main2243606.shtml" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Their quality of care is better *and* their customer satisfaction is higher.

Not only is the VA health care system better than our private one it is also cheaper.  The overhead associated with private health insurance companies is &lt;a href="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8800.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;about 31%&lt;/a&gt;.  That means that for every 100 dollars we spend on health insurance $31 goes to pay for things like advertising, paper pushing, and other administrative costs (I know it is a cliche, but I'm going to say, "CEO yachts").  What does the VA pay in overhead costs?  1%!  That's right:  &lt;a href="http://www.hms.harvard.edu/news/pressreleases/vab/0107top_grades.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;ONE PERCENT&lt;/a&gt;.

There's other benefits to the VA system which are due to the fact that it is a single-payer system such as &lt;a href="http://linuxmednews.com/1197657796" rel="nofollow"&gt;better medical records&lt;/a&gt;.

Finally I'd like to add that you're a victim here.  That's right:  I don't think it is your fault that you're ignorant to these facts.  The health care industry pays loads of money (thanks to our high premiums) in marketing and advertising to make sure that they appear to be better than they are.  This "we're great!" advertising goes on the same television networks that sensationalize the VA's health care problems (it does have them).

Then again, you might just an &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing" rel="nofollow"&gt;astroturfer&lt;/a&gt; that was paid by the health care industry to post your comments.  In which case you should be ashamed of yourself.

-Riskable
"People regularly accept hearsay as fact whilst rejecting or ignoring hard evidence to the contrary. This explains politics, religion, nationalism, racism, and pop music."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horatio, there&#8217;s several fatal flaws with your arguments&#8230;</p>
<p>Firstly:  Steve Jobs makes a hell of a lot more than $1.00 a year.  You&#8217;re confusing his salary at Apple with his actual income.  Apple pays him in stock which he then cashes out whenever he needs money (that, plus his salary/stock from Pixar and the millions he makes in interest from his savings accounts).  If you want to complain about the rich not paying enough in taxes that is an entirely different matter&#8230;</p>
<p>Every time Steve Jobs sells stock he pays the 18% capital gains tax on it.  If he were paid an equivalent amount of money in salary he&#8217;d be paying 35% income tax (the highest income tax bracket).  So next time you want to complain about the rich having unfair advantages pick a better battle.</p>
<p>Second, the VA&#8217;s heath care program consistently ranks higher than the best private health insurance in the U.S.&#8211;in every category!  You need to get the facts before you start making such arguments.  Read more <a href="http://healthypolicy.typepad.com/blog/2006/01/the_va_reprise.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=01&#038;year=2006&#038;base_name=socialized_medicine_rocks" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/eveningnews/main2243606.shtml" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  Their quality of care is better *and* their customer satisfaction is higher.</p>
<p>Not only is the VA health care system better than our private one it is also cheaper.  The overhead associated with private health insurance companies is <a href="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8800.php" rel="nofollow">about 31%</a>.  That means that for every 100 dollars we spend on health insurance $31 goes to pay for things like advertising, paper pushing, and other administrative costs (I know it is a cliche, but I&#8217;m going to say, &#8220;CEO yachts&#8221;).  What does the VA pay in overhead costs?  1%!  That&#8217;s right:  <a href="http://www.hms.harvard.edu/news/pressreleases/vab/0107top_grades.html" rel="nofollow">ONE PERCENT</a>.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s other benefits to the VA system which are due to the fact that it is a single-payer system such as <a href="http://linuxmednews.com/1197657796" rel="nofollow">better medical records</a>.</p>
<p>Finally I&#8217;d like to add that you&#8217;re a victim here.  That&#8217;s right:  I don&#8217;t think it is your fault that you&#8217;re ignorant to these facts.  The health care industry pays loads of money (thanks to our high premiums) in marketing and advertising to make sure that they appear to be better than they are.  This &#8220;we&#8217;re great!&#8221; advertising goes on the same television networks that sensationalize the VA&#8217;s health care problems (it does have them).</p>
<p>Then again, you might just an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing" rel="nofollow">astroturfer</a> that was paid by the health care industry to post your comments.  In which case you should be ashamed of yourself.</p>
<p>-Riskable<br />
&#8220;People regularly accept hearsay as fact whilst rejecting or ignoring hard evidence to the contrary. This explains politics, religion, nationalism, racism, and pop music.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Horatio</title>
		<link>http://riskable.com/2007/07/09/the-numbers-private-health-care-vs-single-payer#comment-1333</link>
		<dc:creator>Horatio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riskable.com/2007/07/09/the-numbers-private-health-care-vs-single-payer/#comment-1333</guid>
		<description>Steve Jobs has an income of $1.00 a year. By your analysis, he would pay nothing. Other wealthy individuals would do the same as your previous commenter noted

Are you experienced with the Veterans Administration? If this is government run health care, count me out



46 million Americans have no healthcare for a number of reasons, including millions of 20-somethings not wanting it. And everyone of those 46 million (who came up with that number, and why should we believe them?) can go to the ER - and do so - on a regular basis. Not optimal, but healthcare is always available.

Now, changing the model to preventative healthcare instead of reactive healthcare might change the whole issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Jobs has an income of $1.00 a year. By your analysis, he would pay nothing. Other wealthy individuals would do the same as your previous commenter noted</p>
<p>Are you experienced with the Veterans Administration? If this is government run health care, count me out</p>
<p>46 million Americans have no healthcare for a number of reasons, including millions of 20-somethings not wanting it. And everyone of those 46 million (who came up with that number, and why should we believe them?) can go to the ER - and do so - on a regular basis. Not optimal, but healthcare is always available.</p>
<p>Now, changing the model to preventative healthcare instead of reactive healthcare might change the whole issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Riskable</title>
		<link>http://riskable.com/2007/07/09/the-numbers-private-health-care-vs-single-payer#comment-1160</link>
		<dc:creator>Riskable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riskable.com/2007/07/09/the-numbers-private-health-care-vs-single-payer/#comment-1160</guid>
		<description>Regarding the IRS's Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) figure:  Everyone knows that there are tax loopholes, tax deductions, and tax credits.  What everyone doesn't know is that the richer you are, the more of them you get.  So even beyond Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy (which saved the top 1% $200 billion) the rich have a wider array of investments and income sources which gives them the power to take advantage of more loopholes, deductions, and credits than the middle class or the poor.

Example:  You can deduct mortgage interest from your taxes.  So if you own two very expensive homes you can write off more interest than the average person while at the same time funneling your money into an asset (the home).  Therefore; the rich can seriously reduce their taxes by simply buying up property (which is what lead to our current housing market problems).

Another example:  If you're rich you can funnel money (in many effective ways) into an S-corp and pay yourself a lower salary (that is still loads of money) than what would be your typical income to significantly reduce your taxes.  Anyone can do this, of course, but to do so at a mid-range income level is not very fruitful (the costs of setting up the S-corp outweigh the tax savings).  Also, most working-class stiffs would be hard-pressed to give up their employer's benefits in favor of tax savings (re-hiring them through the S-corp).  For more info on how this works, see this:

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2006/07/forming_an_scor.html

Note:  John Edwards earned $5-11 million &lt;i&gt;a year&lt;/i&gt; from 1995-1998 via this method while reporting his salary as $360,000 (which is what the IRS saw).  More here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/10/politics/campaign/10edwards.html?ex=1247198400&#038;en=1cfa7c7d7d980f2e&#038;ei=5090&#038;partner=rssuserland

-Riskable
"The road to injustice is paved with gold."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the IRS&#8217;s Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) figure:  Everyone knows that there are tax loopholes, tax deductions, and tax credits.  What everyone doesn&#8217;t know is that the richer you are, the more of them you get.  So even beyond Bush&#8217;s tax cuts for the wealthy (which saved the top 1% $200 billion) the rich have a wider array of investments and income sources which gives them the power to take advantage of more loopholes, deductions, and credits than the middle class or the poor.</p>
<p>Example:  You can deduct mortgage interest from your taxes.  So if you own two very expensive homes you can write off more interest than the average person while at the same time funneling your money into an asset (the home).  Therefore; the rich can seriously reduce their taxes by simply buying up property (which is what lead to our current housing market problems).</p>
<p>Another example:  If you&#8217;re rich you can funnel money (in many effective ways) into an S-corp and pay yourself a lower salary (that is still loads of money) than what would be your typical income to significantly reduce your taxes.  Anyone can do this, of course, but to do so at a mid-range income level is not very fruitful (the costs of setting up the S-corp outweigh the tax savings).  Also, most working-class stiffs would be hard-pressed to give up their employer&#8217;s benefits in favor of tax savings (re-hiring them through the S-corp).  For more info on how this works, see this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2006/07/forming_an_scor.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mymoneyblog.com/archives/2006/07/forming_an_scor.html</a></p>
<p>Note:  John Edwards earned $5-11 million <i>a year</i> from 1995-1998 via this method while reporting his salary as $360,000 (which is what the IRS saw).  More here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/10/politics/campaign/10edwards.html?ex=1247198400&#038;en=1cfa7c7d7d980f2e&#038;ei=5090&#038;partner=rssuserland" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/10/politics/campaign/10edwards.html?ex=1247198400&#038;en=1cfa7c7d7d980f2e&#038;ei=5090&#038;partner=rssuserland</a></p>
<p>-Riskable<br />
&#8220;The road to injustice is paved with gold.&#8221;</p>
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